Curse

Icyguava · Oct 05, 2006, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Hi,

I'm W/Mo and am very new to PvP. Last weekend I came across a A/Me. For once, I felt wasted. I couldn't even get close before touching my opponent.

Greatly appreciate if someone could help to advise how to counter as a W.

Many thanks for your attention.

Thom Bangalter · Oct 05, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Auspicious parry used to be amazing vs an assassin. Still could be pretty decent, haven't tested it recently. Any sort of block/evasion stance would work wonders, though I don't suggest running them in PVP. (the best counter in PVP would be a monk with guardian).

Eldritch Icefist · Oct 05, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

SWORD WAR ONLY:

IAS
attack skill
attack skill
attack skill/heal sig/endure pain
deadly reposite
reposite
glads defence {E}/Auspicious parry {E}/defy pain{E}
rez sig

anti-assassin build. btw, tested that one like this:

zerker stance
sever artery
gash
silverwing/galrath
deadly reposite
reposite
glads defence
rez sig

should work well

Dragannia · Oct 05, 2006, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Shield Bash.

GG.

But just some advice, don't base your build around countering a specific build or profession. Unless you're a Mesmer.

LightningHell · Oct 05, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Shield Bash.

GG.

But just some advice, don't base your build around countering a specific build or profession. Unless you're a Mesmer.

Even if you're a Mesmer you wouldn't want to focus too much on a single profession.

Rera · Oct 05, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Don't worry about 1v1, unless you're participating in that Underground fighting tournament thing posted in Riverside.

Guild Wars isn't about how one character builds does against another character build. Bringing an anti-melee build with stacked ripostes and gladiator's defense might chew up a noob warrior, but any non-braindead warrior is just going to ignore you and kill someone else. Casters aren't going to care about you at all, because you're going to be pretty ineffective against them. I love it whenever I see enemy warriors using Gladiator's Defense and ripostes, because no matter what class I'm playing I know I can safely ignore them.

Here's a tip: One of the best ways to kill anyone, regardless of profession, is to use knockdowns. A character that can't move, attack, or activate (most) skills is just an HP bar to chew through. About the only thing they can save themselves with in those cases is an evasion stance, and most casters (your prime targets) won't have any.

Franco · Oct 05, 2006, 08:40 PM // 20:40

lol this post couldnt come from something rather then a W/MO...

Use riposte +deadly riposte gg assassin.

Pick Me · Oct 06, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Everyone seems to assume you have a sword. Hmmm...

If you have a hammer, try this:

Counter Blow
Belly Smash
Crushing Blow
Irresistable Blow
Flury
Balthazar's Spirit
Protective Spirit/Guardian
Rebirth

Basically hope your healer will heal you and you can take down the assassin or any other class.

The main thing is, blind the assassin. Assassins continue to complain about being blinded and becoming useless. Other than Signet of Malice or a healer that removes conditions, you'll be safe from the Assassin/Mesmer.

Never tried the build I just typed up, so it may or may not be viable.

Dragannia · Oct 06, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Even if you're a Mesmer you wouldn't want to focus too much on a single profession.

True, however, you can, but the end result is that you can be a jack of all trades, really. Most of the Mesmer skills are extremely versatile so it doens't matter if you're geared towards Monk-killing with Surge and Burn because you can use that on anyone.

Rera · Oct 06, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Hammer works well because of knockdowns, as per my earlier tip. A well-played shock warrior can kill most assassins also, unless they catch you with no adrenalin.

Mesmers don't do well as jacks of all trades. Surge and burn will do damage to anyone that has energy, but the reason they're so devastating to monks in particular is because you deal damage while destroying their ability to heal that damage. A warrior isn't going to care about your surge. He'll eat your 100~200 damage, and then he'll run up to you and rage your face.

Dragannia · Oct 07, 2006, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Hammer works well because of knockdowns, as per my earlier tip. A well-played shock warrior can kill most assassins also, unless they catch you with no adrenalin.

Mesmers don't do well as jacks of all trades. Surge and burn will do damage to anyone that has energy, but the reason they're so devastating to monks in particular is because you deal damage while destroying their ability to heal that damage. A warrior isn't going to care about your surge. He'll eat your 100~200 damage, and then he'll run up to you and rage your face.

EVERYONE needs Energy. Using a Surge/Burn example, a Hammer/Axe Warrior without energy will be unable to spike (no Shock, no Crushing Blow), Rangers need energy for Cripshot and the like, etc. Diversion, a frequent skill on a Mesmer's bar, is quite decent for everything, from getting rid of Shocks, to Wards, to annoying Blinding Flashes, etc. Blackout doubles as a shutdown to support players and an adrenaline emptyer.

However, building a Mesmer as a jack of all trades, to counter each specific profession, is usually a bad idea. For example, taking an anti-ranger skill (perhaps Spirit Shackles), an anti-Warrior skill (maybe Soothing Images, Spirit of Failure), then a bunch of anti-caster skills (Diversion, Backfire *cough*), will probably cause much more micromanagement than necessary compared to a timely Blackout here and there.

some guy · Oct 07, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Your best bet against assassins is an enchantment strip, most skilled assassins carry some sort of anti blocking spell, I carry ways of the fox all the time.

Yanman.be · Oct 07, 2006, 04:14 PM // 16:14

W/Mo...bane signet! Also, sins will kd you, so either use balanced stance or dolyak signet, it's what I hate the most.

Rera · Oct 07, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

EVERYONE needs Energy. Using a Surge/Burn example, a Hammer/Axe Warrior without energy will be unable to spike (no Shock, no Crushing Blow), Rangers need energy for Cripshot and the like, etc. Diversion, a frequent skill on a Mesmer's bar, is quite decent for everything, from getting rid of Shocks, to Wards, to annoying Blinding Flashes, etc. Blackout doubles as a shutdown to support players and an adrenaline emptyer.

Warriors need very little energy. Burn+Surge at 16 attribute only burns 16e, so the warrior will have more than enough left to Shock+Frenzy if they're a shock warrior, or Frenzy+Crushing if they're a hammer war.

Diversion, as you said, is good against anyone.

Blackout is a 1s cast. If a warrior sees a mesmer running at him (or worse, if he's running at you and already has you targetted), what do you think he's going to do? You better hope you Diversion'd his distracting blow ... except then he can also just Shock you.

Dragannia · Oct 08, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Warriors need very little energy. Burn+Surge at 16 attribute only burns 16e, so the warrior will have more than enough left to Shock+Frenzy if they're a shock warrior, or Frenzy+Crushing if they're a hammer war.

Diversion, as you said, is good against anyone.

Blackout is a 1s cast. If a warrior sees a mesmer running at him (or worse, if he's running at you and already has you targetted), what do you think he's going to do? You better hope you Diversion'd his distracting blow ... except then he can also just Shock you.

Shock+Frenzy is 15 energy, and a Warrior has about 30 energy altogether. And even then, a good Warrior will be using Bull's Strike a lot of the time, and Frenzy to build adrenaline, and that's not counting the instances that he's already used Shock and is suffering from Exhaustion.

As for Blackout, if he Shocks you, okay fine. You've given him 10 Exhaustion, and you can happily activate Distortion, skip away and Black him out 12 seconds later. I don't actually see many Warriors in high-level PvP use Distracting Blow either, but okay, assuming that they do, you'll be very unlucky that you do get hit by it (since traditionally Warriors will be pressuring your Monks). A Mesmer with good observation skills can spot when the enemy are preparing to spike, and interceed with a timely Blackout (much like a Flashbot can).

Rera · Oct 08, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Shock+Frenzy is only 10 actually. Say you start at 25e. You use Frenzy, you're at 20e, and Shock, which puts you at 15e. The exhaution puts your max energy at 25-10 = 15e.

The difference between a flashbot and a blackout is that blinding flash happens at range, whereas blackout is a touch skill. The degree to which each is telegraphed is vastly different, because there's usually no other reason for a Mesmer or Cripshot (the other main blackout user) to run into melee range of anyone. I'm not saying it's unusable - it's definitely a good skill with careful usage, but you can't rely on it.

I'll concede that an esurge mesmer is at least moderately effective against everyone, but I'm not sure that's saying much. My original argument is that it's non-optimal. Esurge builds are generally designed to destroy monks and casters, and they're extremely good at doing it. Turning the same guns on a warrior may or may not be effective depending on the situation, and definitely isn't going to work as well as someone that brought dedicated warrior hate.

A fair comparison I think is the cripshot ranger, the standard 'jack-of-all-trades'. A good cripshot is an impediment to everyone - she spreads conditions, snares warriors and kiting targets, interrupts casters, blacks-out warriors trying to spike and monks trying to heal spikes.

Shadowfox1125 · Oct 08, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragannia

Shock+Frenzy is 15 energy, and a Warrior has about 30 energy altogether. And even then, a good Warrior will be using Bull's Strike a lot of the time, and Frenzy to build adrenaline, and that's not counting the instances that he's already used Shock and is suffering from Exhaustion.

Shock + Frenzy is 10 energy; 5e each. And I have never met a good warrior with 30 energy before. The most you can get with a FULL Glads set is 28 energy, and I emphasized good earlier because no decent warrior uses a +5e weapon to attack.

ogami_ito · Oct 09, 2006, 04:21 AM // 04:21

KD builds will destroy sins too, as others have said. The warrior just has more defence and a better heal, so basically the way to stop a sin is to out-heal it and shot down the attacks every now and then.

As others have said, do not focus on one character type. But if you really want to easilly kill a sin, ripost, deadly riposte, and healing sig will beat a sin down completely. bonetti's defence too. Now, if you want to do damage to others, this could work:

Evicerate
Executioners
Attack skill
IAS (Frenzy)
Running skill (sprint)
Bonneti's Def
Heal Sig
Res Sig.

Basically activate bonnetis and use heal sig and you will outlast the sin in a (useless) 1v1 fight. Change the attack skill to hamstring and you can kite the sin.

Note that the sin really should not be targeting you unless maybe he is defending his team's softy. So if he is targeting you, its sort of a good thing. The only real downer is that if the sin attacks you before your adren skills are charged, they can be more dangerous.

Icyguava · Oct 09, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Thank you all for your time and interests.

However, I'm quite disappointed with ALL suggestions here as either you have not unerstand my problem or you have not played with a Sin with Mes as secondary.

My opponent, with a Mes as secondary, easily slows down my W and hex me till death. All I could do is busy healing myself. Anyway, what is the use of a W if he can't get close enough to touch his opponent.

Very surprise to see that everyone is discussing what skills to kill a Sin rather than how to kill THE Sin.

Anyway, I've figured the only way to counter my opponent, I require to switch my secondary to Sin. Mainly because of the shadow step to get close him. Other secondary is meaningless, consider the low energy I have to cast other spells.

Hope we all learn something from this thread.

Dragannia · Oct 09, 2006, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

Shock + Frenzy is 10 energy; 5e each. And I have never met a good warrior with 30 energy before. The most you can get with a FULL Glads set is 28 energy, and I emphasized good earlier because no decent warrior uses a +5e weapon to attack.

Shock and Frenzy is 15: Shock is 10 from Exhaustion (going from max energy, of course). Though this might not be the case sometimes, but okay, we'll say it's 10 energy. The problem with using Frenzy first is that you're usually in a speed boost and against kiting opponents hitting Frenzy first might throw off the spike completely with that extra two seconds of chasing. I said AROUND 30 energy, though I probably should have said it's closer to 25. Most people do use a full glad's set, with stoneskin gauntlets.